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[skylark]

THE JESUS & FAMILY GRAVE DISCOVERY/DOCUMENTARY

-JAMES CAMERON…Producer-‘Lost Tomb Of Jesus’-

*CLICK on Cameron’s Photo:
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HIS Major film CREDITS:
o The Terminator
o Rambo: First Blood Part II
o Aliens
o The Abyss
o Terminator 2: Judgment Day
o True Lies
o Titanic
o Dark Angel

-His Background/Biography…at the end of this article-

*’Sweeps’ Note:
Can’t wait for THIS Documentary…and the Usual reactions from- Religious Authority…whatever that means. It WILL BE…and Mark this…the same old song; ‘Don’t give me the facts….my mind has been made up FOR ME’. Hmmm

The film, will be shown soon on Discovery Channel, Britain's Channel 4, Canada's Vision, and Israel's Channel 8. The Discovery Channel will ‘AIR’ the film on 4 March 07 as ‘The Lost Tomb Of Jesus’.
*CLICK on photos of the Tomb/location/etc:
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This 90-minute documentary is bound to outrage Christians and stir up a titanic debate between believers and skeptics.
‘S’…Keep in mind; ’NO ORGANIZED RELIGION SERVES THE SPIRITUAL NEEDS OF HUMANKIND…THEY SERVE THEMSELVES’

In this new documentary, Producer Cameron and his director, Simcha Jacobovici, make the starting claim that Jesus wasn't resurrected…DIDN’T RISE FROM THE DEAD…the cornerstone of Christian faith-- and that his burial cave was discovered near Jerusalem. Also…Jesus had sired a son with Mary Magdelene.
Actually, St. Paul…the REAL founder of Christianity by taking it to Rome…said he saw the Ascension of Jesus ‘in a spiritual sense’…BUT he also saw the Body. Hmmm.

*’S’/Well, most people-Christians in this case-DON’T even know that Jesus had bothers and sisters. That’s been WELL established. But, ‘the faithful’ believe what they are told or want to believe. Why would ‘their’ religious authorities want ‘them’ to know about that anyway? Nothing new…programming people.

…If ‘They’…ANY RELIGION…GET YOU around the age of 6 years old, indoctrinate/educate/and jail you in ‘Their Myths’…’You are theirs’. Damned hard to fight your way out of that…the rest of your life. It’s called ‘FEAR’. If religions didn’t use FEAR as a tactic…no religion would be able to exist/control their faithful. Fear is ‘the mind killer’. Hmmm.

James Cameron held a New York press conference on Monday-26 February- at which he talked about the revelation…of the three coffins, those of Jesus of Nazareth, his mother Mary, and Mary Magdalene.
*CLICK on the Bone Boxes/Other photos/and the inscribed caskets too:
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A couple of these mysterious bone boxes were unveiled at the New York City, Press Conference…in good time to promote Cameron's latest made-for-television movie…IN ALL IRONY of course…just before Easter.

Who could have foreseen that forensic tests could be made on Jesus' bones in a New York crime lab? If you thought that the Israeli archaeologists' salvage tunnel close to the Al Aqsa mosque ignited some religious fury, get ready for another HOT and ANGRY fight. Remember the Spanish Inquisition? Or, how about the BIG fuss over teaching Darwin's theory of Evolution?

Film-makers Cameron and Jacobovici claim to have amassed substantial evidence through DNA tests, archeological evidence and Biblical studies, that the 10 coffins belong to Jesus and his family.

It took 20 years for experts to decipher the names on the ten tombs. They were: Jesua, son of Joseph, Mary, Mary, Mathew, Jofa and Judah, son of Jesua.

*IN FACT…and this is the rub…All leading epigraphers agree about the inscriptions. All archaeologists confirm the nature of the find. It comes down to a matter of statistics.

**A statistical study commissioned by the broadcasters (Discovery Channel/Vision Canada/C4 UK) concludes that…THE PROBABILITY FACTOR IS 600 TO 1 IN FAVOR OF THIS TOMB BEING THE TOMB OF JESUS OF NAZARETH AND HIS FAMILY.

Devout Christian congregations will probably ‘rail’ against this as…Cameron's publicity stunt, and of course absolute heresy. Some 27 years after archaeologists first uncovered this unprepossessing family tomb containing half a dozen inscribed caskets and four unmarked ones, the sensational scientific claims now threaten to debunk belief in the Resurrection, a cornerstone of the Christian faith.

The New Testament recounts how three days after crucifixion, Jesus arose from the grave…which is now supposedly the site of the Church of the Holy Sepulcher at the heart of Jerusalem's old walled city.
*CLICK on the ‘traditional’ depiction of ‘The Ascension’…glorified of course:
 Ressurrection_Typical_portaral_PHOTO.jpg   47.85K   804 downloads

But scientists, archaeologists, DNA experts, statisticians, and antiquities specialists are suggesting that Jesus's burial site was on a hill rather far away from the old rugged cross.

Repercussions of the initial discovery were minimized, even after Israeli professor Amos Kloner deciphered the inscriptions containing such profoundly familiar Biblical names a decade ago, because the Israeli Antiquities Authority stored the caskets in their Beit Shemesh archive. Little publicity leaked out. Biblical archaeology has proven to be a minefield.

The inscribed box, with some human remains still inside, apparently was crammed into an old cave near Talpiyot, an industrial zone in Jerusalem, alongside nine other two thousand year-old sarcophagi allegedly containing the bodies of Mother Mary, the carpenter Joseph, a little-known brother called Jofah, Mary Magdalene, and, most surprisingly of all, Jesus's son Judah.

The documentary claims a 2000 year old section in East Talpiot, just south of Jerusalem's Old City is The Burial Cave of Jesus. The tomb had been uncovered back in 1980, when TNT was detonated by a construction crew putting up a new apartment complex.

27 years ago…Israeli construction workers were gouging out the foundations for a new building in the industrial park in the Talpiyot…a Jerusalem suburb.
The earth gave way, revealing a 2,000 year old cave with 10 stone caskets. Archeologists were summoned…and the stone caskets carted away for examination.

Israel's prominent archeologist Professor Amos Kloner didn't associate the crypt with the New Testament Jesus. His father, after all, was a humble carpenter who couldn't afford a luxury crypt for his family. And all were common Jewish names.
Well…again…MOST PEOPLE just don’t know. In that Biblical Time..YEP during Jesus’s life tiem…the name Jesus itself was a quite common name…accounting for about 10 percent of boys names. The NAME Jesus was not Unique folks.

There was also this little problem…cum inconvenience…that a few miles away, in the old city of Jerusalem, Christians for centuries had been worshipping the empty tomb of Christ at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher.

James Cameron-background/biography

James Francis Cameron (born August 16, 1954) in Ontario Canada…is a successful three-time Academy Award winning director noted for his action/science fiction films, which are often successful financially. Thematically, James Cameron's films generally explore the relationship between man and technology. Cameron directed the film Titanic, which went on to become the top-grossing film of all time, with a worldwide gross of over US$1.8 billion; he also created The Terminator franchise.

James Cameron was born in Kapuskasing, Ontario, Canada, to Phillip, an electrical engineer, and Shirley Cameron, an artist. He grew up in Chippawa, Ontario, and in 1971 his family moved to Brea, California. There he studied physics at Cal State-Fullerton, but his passion for filmmaking would draw him to the film archive of UCLA at every opportunity.
[edit] Early career

He started in the film industry as a screenwriter, then moved into art direction and effects for films such as Battle Beyond the Stars and Escape from New York. Working with producer Roger Corman, Cameron landed his first directorial job in 1981 for the film Piranha II: The Spawning, shot at Grand Cayman Island for the underwater diving sequences, and in Rome, Italy for most of the interior scenes. He was originally hired as the special effects director (and his hand in story-writing can be suspected under the H. A. Milton pseudonym on the original script), and took over the direction when the original director left.

During his stay in Rome, he had a nightmare about a machine emerging from the fire, which had been sent from the future to kill him. While recovering, Cameron conceived the idea for The Terminator. He finally completed a screenplay, and decided to sell it so that he could direct the movie. However, the production companies he contacted, while expressing interest in the project, were unwilling to let a first-time director make the movie. Finally, Cameron found a company called Hemdale Pictures, which was willing to let him direct. His soon-to-be-then-wife, Gale Anne Hurd, who had started her own production company, Pacific Western Productions, had previously worked with Cameron in Roger Corman's company and agreed to buy Cameron's screenplay for one dollar, on the condition that Cameron direct the film. Hurd was signed on as producer, and Cameron finally got his first break as director. Orion Pictures would distribute the film.
Initially, for the role of the Terminator, Cameron wanted someone who wasn't exceptionally muscular, and who could fit into a normal crowd. Lance Henriksen, who had starred in Piranha II: The Spawning, was considered for the titular role, but when Arnold Schwarzenegger auditioned for the role, Cameron decided that he should play the cyborg villain; Henriksen got the smaller part of LAPD detective Hal Vukovich. In addition, Linda Hamilton first appeared in this film in her iconic role of Sarah Connor, and later married Cameron.

The Terminator was a box office hit, breaking expectations by Orion Pictures executives that the film would be regarded as no more than a sci-fi film, and only last a week in theaters. The film was low-budget ($6.5 million), but it earned over $38 million domestically.

During the early 1980s, Cameron wrote three screenplays simultaneously: The Terminator, Aliens, and the first draft of Rambo: First Blood Part II. While Cameron would continue with The Terminator and with Aliens, Sylvester Stallone eventually took over the script of Rambo: First Blood Part II, creating a final draft which differed radically from Cameron's initial version.[1]

Cameron next began the sequel to Alien, the 1979 film by Ridley Scott. Cameron would name the sequel, Aliens, and would again cast Sigourney Weaver, in the iconic role of Ellen Ripley (the sole survivor from the first film). Aliens became a box office success, and Sigourney Weaver received a nomination for Best Actress during the 1986 Academy Awards. Following the phenomenal hit of the film, Cameron now had more freedom to make whatever project he wanted.

Cameron's next project stemmed from an idea that had come up during a high school biology class. The story of oil-rig workers who discover otherworldly underwater creatures became the basis of Cameron's screenplay for The Abyss, which cast Ed Harris and Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio. Made on a budget of about $41 million U.S.[, it was considered to be one of the most expensive films of its time, and required cutting-edge effects technology. Because much of the film takes place underwater and the technology wasn't advanced enough to digitally create an underwater environment, Cameron chose to shoot much of the movie "reel-for-real," at depths of up to 40 feet.

For creation of the sets, an unfinished nuclear power plant was converted, and two huge tanks were utilized. The main tank was filled with 7.5 million gallons of water, and the second 2.5 million gallons. There, the cast and crew would reside for much of the shooting.
The Abyss opened on August 9, 1989 and held the number-one slot at the box office for two weeks[3]. It ultimately earned $85.2 million domestically, $46 million in foreign markets[4] and a mostly lukewarm response from critics. Cameron would later release a special edition version of the film in spring of 1993, restoring deleted scenes, including the film's climax as it had been originally conceived.

The film was nominated for four Academy Awards; Best Visual Effects, Best Art Direction, Best Cinematography, and Best Sound. It won for Best Visual Effects. After the release of The Abyss, Cameron founded his own production company called Lightstorm Entertainment, which produced all of his subsequent films.

After the success of The Terminator, there had always been talks about a sequel to continue the story of Sarah Connor and her struggle against machines from the future. Although Cameron had come up with a core idea for the sequel, and Schwarzenegger expressed interest in continuing the story, there were still problems regarding who had the rights to the story, as well as the logistics of the special effects needed to make the sequel.

Finally, in mid-1990, Mario Kassar of Carolco Pictures secured the rights to the sequel, allowing Cameron to greenlight production of the film, now called Terminator 2: Judgment Day.

For the film, Linda Hamilton reprised her iconic role of Sarah Connor. In addition, Arnold Schwarzenegger also returned in his role as The Terminator, called the Cyberdyne Systems Model 101, but this time as a protector. Unlike the Model 101, who is made of a metal endoskeleton, the new villain of the sequel, called the T-1000, was a more advanced Terminator made of liquid metal, and with polymorphic abilities. The T-1000 would also be much less bulky than the Model 101. For the role, Cameron cast Robert Patrick, who was a sharp contrast to Schwarzenegger. Cameron explained, "I wanted someone who was extremely fast and agile. If the T-800 is a human Panzer tank, then the T-1000 is a Porsche."

Cameron had originally wanted to incorporate this advanced-model Terminator into the first film, but unfortunately the special effects at the time were not advanced enough. The ground-breaking effects used in The Abyss to digitally realize the water tentacle convinced Cameron that his liquid metal villain was now possible.

TriStar Pictures would distribute the film under a locked release date that was only about half a year away from when shooting would begin. The movie, which was co-written by Cameron and his longtime friend, William Wisher, Jr., had to go from screenplay to finished film in just that amount of time. Like Cameron's previous film, it was one of the most expensive films of its era, with a budget of about $100 million. The biggest challenge of the movie was the special effects used in creating the T-1000. Nevertheless, the film was finished on time, and released to theaters on July 3, 1991.

Terminator 2, or T2, as it was abbreviated, broke box-office records (including the opening weekend record for an R-rated film), earning over $200 million domestically, and over $300 million overseas, and became the highest-grossing film of that year. It won four Academy Awards: Best Makeup, Best Sound, Best Sound Effects, and Best Visual Effects.

Before the release of T2, Schwarzenegger came to Cameron with the idea of making a remake of the French comedy titled La Totale. Titled True Lies, with filming begun after T2's release, the story revolves around a secret-agent spy who leads a double life as a married man, whose wife believes he is a computer salesman. Schwarzenegger would be cast as the secret spy, named Harry Tasker, whose mission in the movie is to investigate and stop a plan by Arab terrorists to use nuclear weapons against the United States. Jamie Lee Curtis would play Schwarzenegger's onscreen wife, with Tom Arnold cast as the secret agent's sidekick.

Cameron's Lightstorm Entertainment signed on with Twentieth Century Fox for production of True Lies. Made on a budget of $115 million and released in 1994, the film earned $146 million in North America, and $232 million abroad.

Cameron expressed interest in the famous sinking of the ship Titanic. He decided to script and film his next project based on this event. The picture revolved around a fictional romance story between two young lovers from different social classes who meet onboard the ship's maiden, and final, voyage. Before production began, he took dives to the bottom of the Atlantic and shot actual footage of the ship underwater, which he would insert into the final film.

For the film Titanic, Cameron cast Leonardo di Caprio, Kate Winslet, and Billy Zane. Cameron's budget for the film reached about $200 million, becoming the most expensive movie ever made. Before its release, the film was widely ridiculed for its expense and protracted production schedule.

Released to theaters on December 19, 1997, Titanic opened with $28 million on its first weekend. The film's grosses escalated in the next several weeks. Titanic was one of very few modern movies to gross more in their second weekend than their first. Its gross increased from $28.6 million to $35.4 million from week 1 to week 2, an increase of 23.8%, unheard of for a wide release, and a testament to the appeal of the movie. This was especially noteworthy, considering that the film's running time of more than three hours limited the number of showings each theater could schedule.

It held the #1 spot on the box-office charts for months, eventually grossing a total of over $600 million domestically and more than $1.2 billion outside North America. Titanic became the highest grossing film of all time. (Adjusting for inflation, the film brought in the fifth-highest domestic (U.S. only) gross of all time.) The CG visuals surrounding the sinking and destruction of the ship were considered spectacular. During the 1998 Academy Awards, the film won a record-tying 11 Oscars. Among them were Best Picture and Best Director.

Cameron received the Bradbury Award from the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America in 1991 — but, being primarily thought of as a genre filmmaker, he did not receive any major mainstream filmmaking awards prior to Titanic. With Titanic, Cameron received the Academy Awards for Best Editing (shared with Conrad Buff IV and Richard A. Harris), Best Picture (shared with John Landau), and Best Director.

In recognition of his contributions to underwater filming and remote vehicle technology, the University of Southampton awarded Cameron the honorary degree of Doctor of the University. Cameron received his degree in person at the graduation ceremony in July, 2004.

[rob of Colwyn bay]

Fantastic.Looking forward to watching this on tv.

[Seth Haniel]

There was a film on a similar theme a few years back - where a clergyman discovers the burial - but the vatican covers it up - had a search for the film but got about 1/2 million pages on this latest discovery

[Morph]

The authority at the time was the Romans who were meticulous at documenting everthing that happened in their empire. They kept up to date records of all crucifixitions and executions, as well as why. So, why no mention of Jesus?

[skylark]

Morph, on Mar 1 2007, 03:59 PM, said:

The authority at the time was the Romans who were meticulous at documenting everthing that happened in their empire. They kept up to date records of all crucifixitions and executions, as well as why. So, why no mention of Jesus?

*Morning Morph,
Well, even if the crucifixtion was 'a happening'...it was carried out on the Sabbath...and many of those crucified were 'let off'...without dying. The records, in this case, seem to verify that J.C. didn't die on the cross...lived/fled somewhere, and then returned later in life. Some of the 'Turkish Chronicles' cite J.C. as 1st fleeing to the Turkish areas. His Uncle Joseph of Arrimathea was a BIG wealthy Merchant trader with many ships. It's suspected that J.C. was on shipping boats and travelled extensively as a child and youg adult...before returning to Palestine where he began to 'Preach'. He would have been an Ex-Pat then...and we all know how hard it is 'to come back'-finding that nothing has changed expect you. Hah. More later/'Sweeps'

[skylark]

skylark, on Mar 2 2007, 05:34 AM, said:

*Morning Morph,
Well, even if the crucifixtion was 'a happening'...it was carried out on the Sabbath...and many of those crucified were 'let off'...without dying. The records, in this case, seem to verify that J.C. didn't die on the cross...lived/fled somewhere, and then returned later in life. Some of the 'Turkish Chronicles' cite J.C. as 1st fleeing to the Turkish areas. His Uncle Joseph of Arrimathea was a BIG wealthy Merchant trader with many ships. It's suspected that J.C. was on shipping boats and travelled extensively as a child and youg adult...before returning to Palestine where he began to 'Preach'. He would have been an Ex-Pat then...and we all know how hard it is 'to come back'-finding that nothing has changed expect you. Hah. More later/'Sweeps'

*Here's the more 'gang'/'S'
IT'S A READ...BUT IF YOUR REALLY WANT TO KNOW HOW ALL THIS RELIGIOUS CONTROL CAME ABOUT...'Dig in here'...thanks/'Sweeps'...ENJOY AND LIBERATE YOURSELVES...HOPEFULLY

The Christian bedrock of Jesus as God takes on a whole new complexion when looked at through the even more mysterious and honest insights of the Gnostics, Aryans, Buddhists, Shamans, Mystics, those of ‘Nature Spirit’ philosophies, and others. The great historical figure that Christ represents is seen as a gross mis-representation, for we are all sons and daughters of ‘God’...or more accurately...of ‘Creativity’ itself. If Jesus Christ was (is) truly ‘The God’...we are all in trouble. Whether he was a great healer, magus, and/or political and religious rebel of his time, he would have been the first to agree. Christ was recorded, depending on what reference is chosen, as first rejecting any divinity and then accepting it. The context in which he finally accepted it was more probably one of ‘ Yes, we all are...and so am I’. According to certain scriptures, when asked by ‘Peter’ if he was the Messiah, Christ told his disciple to ‘Be silent’ about such references. He had basically, here, denied the implication and claim... and was possibly self-conscious about it all.

We don’t even really know what he looked like or much about him that has not been blurred, covered up, or re-written. Flavius Josephus (Circa 37-94 A.D. approx.) a renown Jewish historian cites ‘a bunch’ of chronological figures that were first thought to be as the Messiah’ in Jewish historical accounts. Jesus was only one among them. Josephus’s original account also describes each ‘Messiah’. His unflattering physical description of Christ alone was wholly upsetting to his later icon Christian image; so much so that the Christians altered his original description. The Christian changes to historical texts were to make him tall, handsome, and with curly hair. Josephus, obviously a good researcher and historical observer, described Christ as having a ‘hunched back’ and a partially balding head. This image would ‘knock sideways’ some recent alien cults espousing that Christ was genetically modified and implanted in Mary. The aliens either got the hunchback gene wrong or these groups haven’t done their homework. All this doesn’t infer that alien genetic experiments didn’t and/or are not going on...we have ample accounts, reliable witnesses, and speculations to the contrary.

Christ only spent about 3 years on the public stage. He commanded a lot of attention with two main themes. Although he never really measured up to being a prophet in the sense of making many prophecies, he prophesied that the ‘end of the world was coming soon’. That was enough to galvanize many a crowd. The fact that he was wrong didn’t deter his later followers. In fact, the end of the world theme and the idea that time could end was expressed first in the Hebrew book of Daniel in the 2nd Century B.C. It was then, with the bad times of subjugation by the Romans, that the Jews came up with the combining of political and religious ideas of time. The implied sense was that they could be delivered of their political oppressors by ending ‘time’ in a religious way. Religiously they could be delivered from their oppressors by having God come to rule over the Earth in their cause, by ending the world. It would become the forerunner of all the judgment day and apocalyptic ideation’s. Christ merely announced that this ‘ending’ and ‘judgment’ was actually now upon them.

His other theme was the preaching of love, peace, and brotherhood. This was extremely radical for his time, and didn’t stand him in good stead with the more militant Hebrew zealots who expected a marshal type of Messiah to lead them in ousting the Romans from their lands. Nothing much is actually known of his early life, although there is much speculation that he may have traveled with Joseph of Arimathea who was a rich merchant and trader. Joseph was also purportedly the uncle of, Mary, Christ’s mother. Joseph may have taken the young Jesus with him on his travels and business ventures. Joseph and Jesus must have had a close bond. It was Joseph of Arimathea who would later offer one of his own tombs for the body of Jesus coming down from the cross.

It’s possible that Christ could have visited many lands and cultures. Joseph of Arimathea was reported to have visited lands as far away as Glastonbury in Britain and the realms of Persia and India. These excursions to foreign and culturally diverse lands must have affected Christ and his philosophies of life. His adult return to his home land, and the beginning of his public life, could have been as a reverse culture shock. Ex-pats through the ages have found this to be true. It makes them hard to settle and to fit back into their society again. Where did Christ get the peace, love, and brotherhood bit in his travels?

A radical but influential Jewish sect, called the Messianists, claimed that Christ would return from death and lead them against the Romans...despite the fact that Christ only preached brotherhood. Titus, the son of the Roman Emperor, had other ideas. He would wipe out the Messianists along with other Jewish revolutionary factions, and would sack and burn the Jewish Temple. This left the biblical Paul, a Helenized Jew and early convert to Christianity, to bring forth his even stranger interpretation of the life of Christ. He was the one who preached that Christ was ‘The Son Of God’. Since Paul’s followers were spared the outright slaughter of the other revolutionary groups, they were able to ‘carry on’ and stamp their mark on the Christian movement.

Christianity, as we know it, almost totally sprang from Saint Paul’s ‘Greekifying’ it and pushing it toward the West...and Rome. He would out flank the Syrian and Egyptian early Christian communities and leave their interpretations in the dust bin of history. All the major such characters as Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were influenced by, traveled with, or found agreement with St. Paul’s convictions on the appropriate ‘story line’. It is easily recognized in even a simplistic, but historically correct, chronological synopsis form:

MARK- lived outside of the ‘Holy Land’, but was the earliest of the gospel writers on the life of Christ, writing about 20 or so years after the destruction of the ‘Temple’ in Jerusalem. He seized on stories and early tales of Christ’s miracles based on oral traditions. At the time, miracle stories were prolific and attributed to many many ‘men’s’ lives, in an era familiar faddish recognized style. Mark knew this and didn’t concentrate too much on the ‘miracle factor’.

His main theme was of the terrible (almost nightmarish) anguish of Christ’s life. He
cites Christ as even abandoned by God as he hung on the cross. But, he interjected
hope in the way of mystery. It was Mark who told of finding Christ’s tomb being empty. None of the other writers of the time, or the other coming gospel writers would accept this. In fact, even his original gospel would be re-worked and altered a few times. Still, he likened Jesus to the great (expected ‘anointed one’) ‘Messianic’ figure. His emphasis was on the future, when Christ would return. He wrote of Christ’s ‘parables’ and his teachings which, to him, disguised the true nature of Christ. Who taught in parable style? The ‘wise’ teachers in the East did, but we won’t go into that. Mark suggests that this enigmatic ‘preaching’ is significant to the enigmatic nature, again, of Christ and so unrevealing of his true nature. It is necessary to understand that Mark took the fall of the Jewish Temple as one of the signs that Jesus represented something in a different direction; away from the ‘old’ Hebrew teachings and ‘divinely hopeful’ of a new order of redemption from the persecutions of the past. Mark, substantially was a weaver of stories, and he wrote in Greek for those mainly outside of Aramaic speaking lands. He was a ‘Paulist’ champion. His ‘life of Christ’ would set the story example for both Matthew and Luke.

MATTHEW-was the only gospel writer who actually lived in the ‘Holy Land’ area, but in the upper area near Syria. He wrote about 45-55 years after the death of Christ. He tried to reconcile the early Jewish-Christian groups and the ‘straight’ Jewish tradition. He tried this in his attempt to actually trace the blood lines of Christ back to the important Jewish figure of ‘Abraham’. Funny enough, all Middle-Eastern religions would claim ‘Abraham’ as their own. The Muslims, 500 years later, would measure themselves as beginning from this source. They would, however, call him ‘Abrahim’ and give a whole different twist that provided for him really being a Muslim. Matthew set out to provide proof that Jesus was definitely Hebrew, and so merited a melting of Judaism with Christianity. He also compared Christ’s teachings to much of what is essentially in Jewish law itself. But, his early groups of Jewish-Christians were not being readily accepted. His writings then had to strike out against factions (like the ‘Pharisees’) of the Hebrew authority which opposed them. The contentions mounted between the two opposites, and the inexorable exclusion of the Christians from any Judaic consideration would follow. He would end his gospel not with the death of Christ, but with an exhortation (supposedly from Jesus) to spread the word and go out and preach. It was a need for Christian survival.

LUKE-was most likely a traveling companion of Paul. He wrote his gospel around 85 to 90 A.D. He was a scholarly writer, very comfortable in the Greek language, but also he tended to write in a romantic novelist style. His gospel was not his only work. He wrote ‘charming’ stories of the life of Christ, and used a lot of drama and symbolism in his ‘story telling’. He made no pretense of his animosity to the strict Hebrew traditions (mostly based on the way they treated Paul when he visited Jerusalem -and his followers), and struck a clear division between Jews and ‘gentiles’. His push was more toward a Greco-Roman Westward goal. He dwelt much on the theme of ‘universal salvation’ through Christ, and intimated that Christianity posed no threat to Rome...despite the fact that Paul had been executed by Emperor Nero in 67 A.D. His thrust was that Christianity was very much intone with Roman law and progress. All was forgiven. His Christ was cast as a learned, highly ethical, and educated, one. This Christ should be well able to be received in Rome. In fact, Luke’s gospel ends with St. Paul going onto Rome, much as in the direction Luke would have Christianity and himself go after his disenchantment with anything Jewish. It was a portend. The ‘Luke’ Christ could, in his erudite portrayal, be seen as modeled on Luke’s own literary and educated background. Why shouldn’t Christ have a more universal-Roman appeal?

JOHN-wrote his gospel around 100 to 105 A.D. Many of his points conflicted with the other 3 gospels, and his style was absolutely different. He changed the dates of both the
‘last supper’ and Christ’s death. He embellished Christ’s teachings in great symbolism, and was the one to identify him as ‘the lamb of God’. John was influenced, as are most writers, by what was happening during his era. The Jews had again revolted against Roman occupation. The rebel leaders reverted to, and called upon, the apocalyptic expunging of Man (and of course the Roman enemy) and the setting up of a new ‘Kingdom on Earth’ for the faithful. It was after all a rebellion being fought in and around the ‘millennium’ years, giving it rather an added meaning for thinking in terms of endings and new beginnings. There was great devastation in the ‘home land’, adding to the climate for total release that only a Godlike intervention and redemption could bring. The new Jewish rebel leader (BARUCH) was regarded by many as ‘The Messiah’. This made it impossible for the Christians to join in the revolt. They already had their own Messiah. John’s book of ‘Revelations’, couched in all the ancient religious symbolism of judgment and the ‘ending of time’, was an appeal and encouragement for Christians to hold steady during this time of great tumult and testing. He wrote in greatly graphic ‘spiritual’ terms, which were well known central themes of apocalyptic vision.

I had researched and written a long paper entitled ‘A Background Of Western Religion, Up To And Including The Council Of Constance 1414-1418’, while a student at The State University Of Education At Buffalo-New York. Out of interest, and in keeping with the typical machinations of the Roman Church, this was the Counsel which finally solved the dilemma of the ‘Schism’...where 3 different Popes each claimed the title at the same time. Basically all three were ousted and 1 of them executed, in favor of an agreed compromise candidate-Pope Martin the 5th. During intervening years I’ve kept an interest in adding to and researching more of this history. It’s been quite a drama of the unfolding of church political intrigue. The vast majority of people are kept unfamiliar and ignorant of most of this background, and the attendant slaughter of all opposing personalities and views.

These 4 ‘Gospels’ (even the word is Greek...for ‘book’), which were to be the basis of the ‘New Testament’, were ostensibly concerned with the nature and life of Christ. They were also the political and social reflections by each of their authors, in their attempts to deal with the climate and influences of the times. By the time Christianity was flourishing in the West and starting to change all of history, very little of who Christ was (or what he actually did) remained in Christendom.

Creeping misconceptions and ‘borrowings’ were rife and perpetuated. Baptism wasn’t a ‘Christian coming in’ newly devised thing you know. Well, most Christians don’t know. Baptism was, oddly enough for the vast fully accepting lay Christian majority, an old Jewish sect practice. John the Baptist was a radical first type of ‘apocalyptic’ prophesying aesthetic. He roamed about in the desert discoursing and preaching about the soon coming ‘doom, doom, doom’. I’ve always conjured up his image as satirically similar to the character of Mansard G. Krebs in the old American comedy series ‘Dobbie Gillis’. Maynard was a wispy ‘goateed’ teenage pre-hippie ‘bohemian’, who stoically ran around with the ‘doom, doom, doom’ outlook on life as Dobbie’s sidekick. Then again, I’m essentially happily warped, preferring to see satire in most things and situations.

Christian theologians have shirked badly with reddened faces over the fact that Christ was most probably a follower’ of John the Baptist, and so was baptized by him. He later took up John’s ‘passed’ mission torch of apocalyptic vision, although in a moderated more subtle ethical/spiritual mode. It does though demonstrate Christ’s allegiance to and influence by John.

Christ was born as Joshua (or Joshua) Ben Joseph…son of Joseph. Joshua was a common enough name in his days. The ‘Christ’ name was added much later, when he was identified as having the ‘Christos’ type of manner and appeal. His name was never Jesus Christ. Don’t ‘Josh’ me! There has always been the big controversy over where he was actually born. It was Luke who told the strange story of him being born in Bethlehem, because Herod had decreed that all Jews had to travel to their ancestral home place for the Roman census. This has no founding in fact. In fact it would have been a bureaucratic, logistical, and administrative headache for any such undertaking. Imagine uprooting all the Jewish families and setting them on the road as refugees...nightmarish. The only reason for this Luke contrivance, was to ensure that Christ be regarded as being connected or descended from ‘The House Of David’. The ‘Son Of God’ naming in Christ’s time was a designation given to Hebrew ‘Kings’, and had no metaphysical meaning. Things are bent to reflect changing agendas. In the words of ‘Millennium’, the popular TV series, ‘This is who we are’.

Christianity is, no doubt, a personality cult. The prime figure in any personality cult turns out to be perfect and ‘God like’. The whole thrust and significance of Christ’s real preaching regarding peace, love, and brotherhood would take second stage to the fact that he was ‘God’. The Paulist Christians would conveniently overlook and change many of the details and purposes of Christ’s life. It would become trendy in later Christianity to follow this example. One of the things they would overlook was the fact that Jesus had a brother. His brother’s name was John, and it is well recorded and documented by Jewish historians of Christ’s era. The latest finding, on researching the life and times of Christ, is that he may have had 4 younger brothers and some sisters.

On the other hand, orthodox Hebrews claim that their scriptures and traditions say that before their Messiah can appear (the orthodoxy still expects ‘HIM’...not a ‘HER’) all Jews will have to be gathered in Israel...or at least the land that was Palestine in the old days. Fat chance. Maybe free passage and tours could be arranged.

But, as fate or the ‘possibility of all possibilities’ had provided for, a remarkable find occurred in 1945 in Egypt. Previously unknown ‘Gnostic’ writings, and other gospels, were found in a jar. They have been dated to the 3rd and 5th centuries B.C., and are copies of translations made by the Coptic Christian sect of the originals. These 49 very different writings would become known as the ‘Nag Hammadi Papyri’.

Their significance lies in the fact that they are representative of a Gnostic influence and thought in the early Christian communities, that was supposed to have been thoroughly and viciously eradicated by early ‘Roman’ authority. They range from the re-interpretation of ‘Genesis’ to whole different views on the life and times of Jesus. There are whole original and unseen ‘gospels’ in the treatises ascribed to a Phillip and even Mary Magdalene. And there is a Thomas gospel which deals with certain discourses and sayings of Jesus, provocative of alternate interpretations of his life and message. While the ‘Paulist’ groups wended around towards Greece and finally Rome to establish authority and primacy for their Christian interpretation, other early Christian groups went into Egypt and across Northern Africa. The Gnostic thought holds Christ to be ‘Man’, dispelling the notion of him being or claiming to be God. This find establishes absolutely the nature of Gnostic views on Christian history, and establishes it as more of a Christian-Jewish outlook instead of Greek character.

The expunging of Gnostic thought and influence in the early Christian church, ousted the prime example of Christ as a highly placed teacher...for the way people should live with each other. Preaching love and tolerance, peace and brotherhood, wasn’t enough to form a ‘church’ around. He had to be, not just a great spiritual soul but the actual embodiment of ‘The God’. The most ‘ridiculous’ slant of all that would be ‘laid upon him’ would be that he came to die for Mankind’s sins. The Gnostics gathered from his teachings and example, that all people could attain an independent spiritual growth by a direct ‘seeking’ of their own individual paths to ‘God’.

This really ‘pissed off’ those wanting to form a church religion around Christ and impose a need for intermediaries to reach ‘God’. People couldn’t be allowed to wander around ‘on their own toot’ trying to find the path, could they? How the hell could they all be controlled that way? It was out of the question. Besides ‘orthodox’ Christian men such as Ianaus in the 2nd Century, had already ruled out going on to Rome itself with a bunch of free thinkers. These Christians were intent on building a ‘church religion’ in the authority mode of Roman example. Even in this early period the writings of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, were enshrined as the stories to go by...despite their contradictions and ‘selfish’ purposes in support of their own era needs. Very funny how just these gospels would become the later basis for ‘the authoritative word of God’. They supported the idea of establishing ‘church’ authority.

In every religion or sect at the level where the flock or layity is contacted, gross distortions are perpetrated. There is, always to be found, contamination and corruption of content. Power will always guard ‘its’ truth’. Within the rooted hierarchies of organized religion of any persuasion, there is totalitarianism. With any luck now, they will be seen for what they are and they’ll have lost it. Before the ‘Internet’ and ‘The Worldwide Web’ all information and knowledge accorded or made accessible to the general public or laymen was guarded and censored. Such was the source of authority, control, tribute, and belief fostering.

[Morph]

What a great thesis on the Messiah and the christian religion. Very thought-provoking and enlightening. And no, I cannot follow that.

[skylark]

Morph, on Mar 2 2007, 11:03 PM, said:

What a great thesis on the Messiah and the christian religion. Very thought-provoking and enlightening. And no, I cannot follow that.

*Thanks Morph,
...Most people wouldn't take the time/interest to read that, aren't motivated to 'look into' things whch govern and 'sit on them'.
-More of the More then:

By: ‘Sweeps’ Fox From his book-'Trying To Light The Match-/'Kicking The One Reality Habit'
Gradually Constantine became more in league with Christian groups. He had granted many favors and concessions to certain Christian church groups and their Bishops. He built churches and stocked them, throughout the Empire, with gold and silver and provided them with art, marble, and mosaics. He made sure that churches were given land, power, and a variety of rich possessions. As a politician he depended on their support in his civil war with Licinus who had large Pagan support. By 324 A.D. Constantine’s alliance had emerged triumphant and he was the sole Emperor of the Roman Empire. He also had Licinus executed. It wasn’t necessary. Licinus was no tyrant, but Constantine would brook no liberality in his drive to establish his personal imprint on the course of history. He was later to have his eldest son executed and also his wife, in a ruthless stamping out of any objection to his one man rule. He conceived of himself as the ‘One’ head of State. There was now only ‘One’ Roman Empire, so why shouldn’t there be only the ‘One’ God?

In 325 A.D. he convened the council at Nicaea. As a politician he realized that it was necessary to consolidate the loose Christian apostolic communities around the Empire. There was no ‘one’ belief or doctrine, no one set of agreed sacraments, no agreed historical acceptance of events, no agreement on the divinity or lack of divinity of Jesus Christ, and no universally agreed on oral accounts or written records inclusive of the 300 years after the death of Christ. Most Christians will find this uneasy...the truth ‘was always known...wasn’t. it? In street vernacular...’time to get their act together’.
Suddenly many of the illiterate and local leaders of these separate belief communities would find themselves elevated to the rank of Bishop, in order for the Counsel to take on the proper air of importance.

The gathering done...the Council broke down into warring factions, each proclaiming their own pre-conceived ideas and practice of what should be accepted. Physical fights broke out, and when the old scholar Arius rose to speak he was struck down. Arius

was a Presbyter of Alexandria Egypt and a learned man? His argument was that if Christ was born as God he could have easily resisted temptation and sin, but if he was born human how much more respect he was due in being able to resist sin. Arius and his faction of scholars and literate scribes denied the divinity of Christ. These Arians, as the philosophy was called, found themselves rejected by the more illiterate merchants, traders, craftsmen, who had recently been elevated in status.

The continuing wrangling of the Council prompted Constantine to conclude the dissension. Acting as Emperor...not in any religious capacity....he imposed his will on the Council. He had decided that the value of the men of commerce necessary to hold the flagging Empire together, the non-Arians, was more important to the Empire. The value of the scholars could be of lesser importance. He ruled that the divinity of Christ was to be proclaimed as the only view. It became a creed.

It was now necessary to preserve the Empire by preserving the State religion and the politically arrived at religious settlement.

Arianism was condemned and became an heretical outcast, but its influence and support was not to go away yet. It remained a ‘thorn’ in the side of many future Councils. Finally, over 1 million Arians would be pursued, persecuted for their beliefs, and killed in order to preserve the ‘one true faith’...and in the typical tolerance of Christendom. Constantine’s own son, Constantius 11, was an Arian....but, like his father, committed himself to the ‘Christianization’ of the Empire in order to further its survival. The majority of the people of the Empire were still Pagan and were to again manage to gain some control of the Imperial Throne for a short period around 360 A.D.

Other matters of this landmark Council centered on the many interpretations of doctrine, the many differently authored Gospels and oral and written works, and the settlement of what would become the official Church sacraments out of the many. Arguments continued on each new round of decision making. Nothing was ever ‘apparent’...they argued about everything. Christianity was about to become the great borrower religion. Even the concept of the Devil was to be stolen from some older Jewish sects. This, Devil, was never admitted into the Jewish Cannon...but it was a concept to be taken over and re-invented by Christians. Many of the early Christians were really Jews that had been cast out of the Hebrew faith for their insistence on proclaiming Jesus as the Messiah.


They also brought their Devil into Christianity. It was welcome. It would be the main theological weapon to create an evil in the world which only Christianity could deal with...until the Muslim’s came along. Their Devil (Shaytahn) would be borrowed from the Christians 500 years later...with the same grizzly application.

The ‘Devil’ thing is fascinating ‘doubletake’ and ‘doubletalk’ in it’s conflicting mythical origins. Supposedly, Lucifer revolted against God and He and his legions were cast into Hell...a base which He could use to cause further conflict against God and His creatures. Lucifer was reportedly(?) dissatisfied with God’s decision to give Man a place even above the Angels and to give Man ‘free will’...something not even the Angels had. The ironies stick out pretty far here. If the Angels didn’t have free will how were they to be able to revolt in the first place? In the second place, it infers that God allowed ‘Evil’ to be created and to continue. How do you provide for the existence of ‘evil’ in the world if the ‘God’ who created it is ‘all good’? Can ‘Good’ contact ‘evil’? Could a God who is ‘all good’ have anything to do with ‘evil’? Can ‘evil’ come out of ‘good’? Could an ‘all knowing’ God be caught off guard...not knowing there was a revolt coming? It doesn’t compute. Perhaps the ‘War in the Heavens’ was a war among Alien races...or a breakaway rebel group that wouldn’t go along with ‘The Federation’. In fact, it makes a better case than a God who lets things get out of control.

The Gospels were another big hang-up. No one group was able to sell it’s convictions and preferences to the majority. Out of the 42 odd Gospels (according to this and according to him) all with differing dates and relevance to the life of Jesus Christ, only the present 4 were picked...and these again by the political imposition of Constantine...rushing in to conclude another dissension. The remainder, and even all the ‘Gnostic’ texts, were expunged or consigned to the fire...burned. And, those Gospels with perhaps more truth or insight on history were lost forever.

We’ll never know. The 4 accepted ones (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) would be THE selected versions to be known from then on as reflecting the authoritative word of God! Of course, they would be re-written many times, and almost continually. More later.

At least, I muse with tongue in cheek, we can be assured that asteroid XF-11 won’t be our ‘end of the world’. It’s been calculated that it could smash into the Earth around 28 October , at tea time, in the year 2028 A.D. The ‘surviving’ scriptures tell us paraphrased that ‘We’ll know neither the day nor the hour’ of our doom’.

Later Councils would decide on such subjects as ‘transubstantiation’....the bread of communion becoming the actual ‘body of Christ’ and many other of the doctrines and dogmas to be believed in. One Council had the prickly problem of establishing ‘Purgatory’ as an actual place. The reasoning went along the lines of.....’What if a person isn’t bad enough to be sent to Hell but not good enough to get into Heaven’? Well we all know by now that a compromise was nicely agreed....Purgatory...where a soul could be purged of it’s sins and then allowed to enter Heaven.

At this point the church would look anew at the system of ‘indulgences’, which had already developed much earlier in their history from the concept built on the practice of ‘doing penance’. Indulgences were ‘added on’ special considerations given to ‘sinners’, offered by high ecclesiastical offices. There was the notion that there existed a residue of ‘sin’ even after absolution (forgiveness) was obtained. Indulgences could remove or lessen the punishment due these remnants of sins. The ‘establishment’ of Purgatory gave a whole new emphasis and design for applying indulgences. Now the church could offer degrees of indulgences to reduce one’s time of punishment in ‘this’ Purgatory. The sinner’s sentence could be reduced...time off for good indulgences received. If this whole idea was conceived of in ‘modern’ times perhaps the church would offer tokens, coupons, or merit badges, as visible evidence of accumulated points toward early parole. But in those days sinners would have to gain these award earnings in other ways, including ‘paying for them’. ‘When the coin in the coffer drops, out your soul will pop’, and things like that. The money became a prime source of church revenue, and abuse, for years. After ‘The Reformation’ called these practices into question, the payment for indulgences was finally stopped (by the Council of Trent) in 1567 A.D. Still, the system of indulgences continues in its’ reformed version even to today. The ‘faithful’ can certainly appreciate, and work real hard to sustain a church which can promise these benefits. Who the hell wants to spend more time in Purgatory than one has to?

This ‘blast from the past’ cemented the beliefs of billions of people over centuries, gave guilting and repression a head start, and enshrined the closed consciousness. It presented Man with a set of very strange values that gives him license (or the order) to destroy nature (because we have dominion over the Earth and it’s creatures...not part of it as the Pagans practice naturally..., to murder each other, and to be fearful of a personal father God that is ‘out there somewhere. ‘The Blast’ also sealed us into the tight little reality box which will be shown to be the culprit in most of our social and personal day to day problems.

[skylark]

skylark, on Mar 3 2007, 01:15 PM, said:

*Thanks Morph,
...Most people wouldn't take the time/interest to read that, aren't motivated to 'look into' things whch govern and 'sit on them'.
-More of the More then:

By: ‘Sweeps’ Fox From his book-'Trying To Light The Match-/'Kicking The One Reality Habit'
Gradually Constantine became more in league with Christian groups. He had granted many favors and concessions to certain Christian church groups and their Bishops. He built churches and stocked them, throughout the Empire, with gold and silver and provided them with art, marble, and mosaics. He made sure that churches were given land, power, and a variety of rich possessions. As a politician he depended on their support in his civil war with Licinus who had large Pagan support. By 324 A.D. Constantine’s alliance had emerged triumphant and he was the sole Emperor of the Roman Empire. He also had Licinus executed. It wasn’t necessary. Licinus was no tyrant, but Constantine would brook no liberality in his drive to establish his personal imprint on the course of history. He was later to have his eldest son executed and also his wife, in a ruthless stamping out of any objection to his one man rule. He conceived of himself as the ‘One’ head of State. There was now only ‘One’ Roman Empire, so why shouldn’t there be only the ‘One’ God?

In 325 A.D. he convened the council at Nicaea. As a politician he realized that it was necessary to consolidate the loose Christian apostolic communities around the Empire. There was no ‘one’ belief or doctrine, no one set of agreed sacraments, no agreed historical acceptance of events, no agreement on the divinity or lack of divinity of Jesus Christ, and no universally agreed on oral accounts or written records inclusive of the 300 years after the death of Christ. Most Christians will find this uneasy...the truth ‘was always known...wasn’t. it? In street vernacular...’time to get their act together’.
Suddenly many of the illiterate and local leaders of these separate belief communities would find themselves elevated to the rank of Bishop, in order for the Counsel to take on the proper air of importance.

The gathering done...the Council broke down into warring factions, each proclaiming their own pre-conceived ideas and practice of what should be accepted. Physical fights broke out, and when the old scholar Arius rose to speak he was struck down. Arius

was a Presbyter of Alexandria Egypt and a learned man? His argument was that if Christ was born as God he could have easily resisted temptation and sin, but if he was born human how much more respect he was due in being able to resist sin. Arius and his faction of scholars and literate scribes denied the divinity of Christ. These Arians, as the philosophy was called, found themselves rejected by the more illiterate merchants, traders, craftsmen, who had recently been elevated in status.

The continuing wrangling of the Council prompted Constantine to conclude the dissension. Acting as Emperor...not in any religious capacity....he imposed his will on the Council. He had decided that the value of the men of commerce necessary to hold the flagging Empire together, the non-Arians, was more important to the Empire. The value of the scholars could be of lesser importance. He ruled that the divinity of Christ was to be proclaimed as the only view. It became a creed.

It was now necessary to preserve the Empire by preserving the State religion and the politically arrived at religious settlement.

Arianism was condemned and became an heretical outcast, but its influence and support was not to go away yet. It remained a ‘thorn’ in the side of many future Councils. Finally, over 1 million Arians would be pursued, persecuted for their beliefs, and killed in order to preserve the ‘one true faith’...and in the typical tolerance of Christendom. Constantine’s own son, Constantius 11, was an Arian....but, like his father, committed himself to the ‘Christianization’ of the Empire in order to further its survival. The majority of the people of the Empire were still Pagan and were to again manage to gain some control of the Imperial Throne for a short period around 360 A.D.

Other matters of this landmark Council centered on the many interpretations of doctrine, the many differently authored Gospels and oral and written works, and the settlement of what would become the official Church sacraments out of the many. Arguments continued on each new round of decision making. Nothing was ever ‘apparent’...they argued about everything. Christianity was about to become the great borrower religion. Even the concept of the Devil was to be stolen from some older Jewish sects. This, Devil, was never admitted into the Jewish Cannon...but it was a concept to be taken over and re-invented by Christians. Many of the early Christians were really Jews that had been cast out of the Hebrew faith for their insistence on proclaiming Jesus as the Messiah.
They also brought their Devil into Christianity. It was welcome. It would be the main theological weapon to create an evil in the world which only Christianity could deal with...until the Muslim’s came along. Their Devil (Shaytahn) would be borrowed from the Christians 500 years later...with the same grizzly application.

The ‘Devil’ thing is fascinating ‘doubletake’ and ‘doubletalk’ in it’s conflicting mythical origins. Supposedly, Lucifer revolted against God and He and his legions were cast into Hell...a base which He could use to cause further conflict against God and His creatures. Lucifer was reportedly(?) dissatisfied with God’s decision to give Man a place even above the Angels and to give Man ‘free will’...something not even the Angels had. The ironies stick out pretty far here. If the Angels didn’t have free will how were they to be able to revolt in the first place? In the second place, it infers that God allowed ‘Evil’ to be created and to continue. How do you provide for the existence of ‘evil’ in the world if the ‘God’ who created it is ‘all good’? Can ‘Good’ contact ‘evil’? Could a God who is ‘all good’ have anything to do with ‘evil’? Can ‘evil’ come out of ‘good’? Could an ‘all knowing’ God be caught off guard...not knowing there was a revolt coming? It doesn’t compute. Perhaps the ‘War in the Heavens’ was a war among Alien races...or a breakaway rebel group that wouldn’t go along with ‘The Federation’. In fact, it makes a better case than a God who lets things get out of control.

The Gospels were another big hang-up. No one group was able to sell it’s convictions and preferences to the majority. Out of the 42 odd Gospels (according to this and according to him) all with differing dates and relevance to the life of Jesus Christ, only the present 4 were picked...and these again by the political imposition of Constantine...rushing in to conclude another dissension. The remainder, and even all the ‘Gnostic’ texts, were expunged or consigned to the fire...burned. And, those Gospels with perhaps more truth or insight on history were lost forever.

We’ll never know. The 4 accepted ones (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) would be THE selected versions to be known from then on as reflecting the authoritative word of God! Of course, they would be re-written many times, and almost continually. More later.

At least, I muse with tongue in cheek, we can be assured that asteroid XF-11 won’t be our ‘end of the world’. It’s been calculated that it could smash into the Earth around 28 October , at tea time, in the year 2028 A.D. The ‘surviving’ scriptures tell us paraphrased that ‘We’ll know neither the day nor the hour’ of our doom’.

Later Councils would decide on such subjects as ‘transubstantiation’....the bread of communion becoming the actual ‘body of Christ’ and many other of the doctrines and dogmas to be believed in. One Council had the prickly problem of establishing ‘Purgatory’ as an actual place. The reasoning went along the lines of.....’What if a person isn’t bad enough to be sent to Hell but not good enough to get into Heaven’? Well we all know by now that a compromise was nicely agreed....Purgatory...where a soul could be purged of it’s sins and then allowed to enter Heaven.

At this point the church would look anew at the system of ‘indulgences’, which had already developed much earlier in their history from the concept built on the practice of ‘doing penance’. Indulgences were ‘added on’ special considerations given to ‘sinners’, offered by high ecclesiastical offices. There was the notion that there existed a residue of ‘sin’ even after absolution (forgiveness) was obtained. Indulgences could remove or lessen the punishment due these remnants of sins. The ‘establishment’ of Purgatory gave a whole new emphasis and design for applying indulgences. Now the church could offer degrees of indulgences to reduce one’s time of punishment in ‘this’ Purgatory. The sinner’s sentence could be reduced...time off for good indulgences received. If this whole idea was conceived of in ‘modern’ times perhaps the church would offer tokens, coupons, or merit badges, as visible evidence of accumulated points toward early parole. But in those days sinners would have to gain these award earnings in other ways, including ‘paying for them’. ‘When the coin in the coffer drops, out your soul will pop’, and things like that. The money became a prime source of church revenue, and abuse, for years. After ‘The Reformation’ called these practices into question, the payment for indulgences was finally stopped (by the Council of Trent) in 1567 A.D. Still, the system of indulgences continues in its’ reformed version even to today. The ‘faithful’ can certainly appreciate, and work real hard to sustain a church which can promise these benefits. Who the hell wants to spend more time in Purgatory than one has to?

This ‘blast from the past’ cemented the beliefs of billions of people over centuries, gave guilting and repression a head start, and enshrined the closed consciousness. It presented Man with a set of very strange values that gives him license (or the order) to destroy nature (because we have dominion over the Earth and it’s creatures...not part of it as the Pagans practice naturally..., to murder each other, and to be fearful of a personal father God that is ‘out there somewhere. ‘The Blast’ also sealed us into the tight little reality box which will be shown to be the culprit in most of our social and personal day to day problems.

*Just a note,
We would all like to know when this documentary will be presented on SKY, Channel 4 in the U.K., or any other TV Station in this Irish/U.K area. If a date/time is discovered...PLEASE let us all know. Hopefully guests and members will read the 'Replies' which are included in this posting. A big thank you/'Sweeps'

[skylark]

skylark, on Feb 28 2007, 03:52 AM, said:

THE JESUS & FAMILY GRAVE DISCOVERY/DOCUMENTARY

-JAMES CAMERON…Producer-‘Lost Tomb Of Jesus’-

*CLICK on Cameron’s Photo:
attachment

HIS Major film CREDITS:
o The Terminator
o Rambo: First Blood Part II
o Aliens
o The Abyss
o Terminator 2: Judgment Day
o True Lies
o Titanic
o Dark Angel

-His Background/Biography…at the end of this article-

*’Sweeps’ Note:
Can’t wait for THIS Documentary…and the Usual reactions from- Religious Authority…whatever that means. It WILL BE…and Mark this…the same old song; ‘Don’t give me the facts….my mind has been made up FOR ME’. Hmmm

The film, will be shown soon on Discovery Channel, Britain's Channel 4, Canada's Vision, and Israel's Channel 8. The Discovery Channel will ‘AIR’ the film on 4 March 07 as ‘The Lost Tomb Of Jesus’.
*CLICK on photos of the Tomb/location/etc:
attachment attachment attachment

This 90-minute documentary is bound to outrage Christians and stir up a titanic debate between believers and skeptics.
‘S’…Keep in mind; ’NO ORGANIZED RELIGION SERVES THE SPIRITUAL NEEDS OF HUMANKIND…THEY SERVE THEMSELVES’

In this new documentary, Producer Cameron and his director, Simcha Jacobovici, make the starting claim that Jesus wasn't resurrected…DIDN’T RISE FROM THE DEAD…the cornerstone of Christian faith-- and that his burial cave was discovered near Jerusalem. Also…Jesus had sired a son with Mary Magdelene.
Actually, St. Paul…the REAL founder of Christianity by taking it to Rome…said he saw the Ascension of Jesus ‘in a spiritual sense’…BUT he also saw the Body. Hmmm.

*’S’/Well, most people-Christians in this case-DON’T even know that Jesus had bothers and sisters. That’s been WELL established. But, ‘the faithful’ believe what they are told or want to believe. Why would ‘their’ religious authorities want ‘them’ to know about that anyway? Nothing new…programming people.

…If ‘They’…ANY RELIGION…GET YOU around the age of 6 years old, indoctrinate/educate/and jail you in ‘Their Myths’…’You are theirs’. Damned hard to fight your way out of that…the rest of your life. It’s called ‘FEAR’. If religions didn’t use FEAR as a tactic…no religion would be able to exist/control their faithful. Fear is ‘the mind killer’. Hmmm.

James Cameron held a New York press conference on Monday-26 February- at which he talked about the revelation…of the three coffins, those of Jesus of Nazareth, his mother Mary, and Mary Magdalene.
*CLICK on the Bone Boxes/Other photos/and the inscribed caskets too:
attachment attachment attachment attachment

attachment attachment

A couple of these mysterious bone boxes were unveiled at the New York City, Press Conference…in good time to promote Cameron's latest made-for-television movie…IN ALL IRONY of course…just before Easter.

Who could have foreseen that forensic tests could be made on Jesus' bones in a New York crime lab? If you thought that the Israeli archaeologists' salvage tunnel close to the Al Aqsa mosque ignited some religious fury, get ready for another HOT and ANGRY fight. Remember the Spanish Inquisition? Or, how about the BIG fuss over teaching Darwin's theory of Evolution?

Film-makers Cameron and Jacobovici claim to have amassed substantial evidence through DNA tests, archeological evidence and Biblical studies, that the 10 coffins belong to Jesus and his family.

It took 20 years for experts to decipher the names on the ten tombs. They were: Jesua, son of Joseph, Mary, Mary, Mathew, Jofa and Judah, son of Jesua.

*IN FACT…and this is the rub…All leading epigraphers agree about the inscriptions. All archaeologists confirm the nature of the find. It comes down to a matter of statistics.

**A statistical study commissioned by the broadcasters (Discovery Channel/Vision Canada/C4 UK) concludes that…THE PROBABILITY FACTOR IS 600 TO 1 IN FAVOR OF THIS TOMB BEING THE TOMB OF JESUS OF NAZARETH AND HIS FAMILY.

Devout Christian congregations will probably ‘rail’ against this as…Cameron's publicity stunt, and of course absolute heresy. Some 27 years after archaeologists first uncovered this unprepossessing family tomb containing half a dozen inscribed caskets and four unmarked ones, the sensational scientific claims now threaten to debunk belief in the Resurrection, a cornerstone of the Christian faith.

The New Testament recounts how three days after crucifixion, Jesus arose from the grave…which is now supposedly the site of the Church of the Holy Sepulcher at the heart of Jerusalem's old walled city.
*CLICK on the ‘traditional’ depiction of ‘The Ascension’…glorified of course:
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But scientists, archaeologists, DNA experts, statisticians, and antiquities specialists are suggesting that Jesus's burial site was on a hill rather far away from the old rugged cross.

Repercussions of the initial discovery were minimized, even after Israeli professor Amos Kloner deciphered the inscriptions containing such profoundly familiar Biblical names a decade ago, because the Israeli Antiquities Authority stored the caskets in their Beit Shemesh archive. Little publicity leaked out. Biblical archaeology has proven to be a minefield.

The inscribed box, with some human remains still inside, apparently was crammed into an old cave near Talpiyot, an industrial zone in Jerusalem, alongside nine other two thousand year-old sarcophagi allegedly containing the bodies of Mother Mary, the carpenter Joseph, a little-known brother called Jofah, Mary Magdalene, and, most surprisingly of all, Jesus's son Judah.

The documentary claims a 2000 year old section in East Talpiot, just south of Jerusalem's Old City is The Burial Cave of Jesus. The tomb had been uncovered back in 1980, when TNT was detonated by a construction crew putting up a new apartment complex.

27 years ago…Israeli construction workers were gouging out the foundations for a new building in the industrial park in the Talpiyot…a Jerusalem suburb.
The earth gave way, revealing a 2,000 year old cave with 10 stone caskets. Archeologists were summoned…and the stone caskets carted away for examination.

Israel's prominent archeologist Professor Amos Kloner didn't associate the crypt with the New Testament Jesus. His father, after all, was a humble carpenter who couldn't afford a luxury crypt for his family. And all were common Jewish names.
Well…again…MOST PEOPLE just don’t know. In that Biblical Time..YEP during Jesus’s life tiem…the name Jesus itself was a quite common name…accounting for about 10 percent of boys names. The NAME Jesus was not Unique folks.

There was also this little problem…cum inconvenience…that a few miles away, in the old city of Jerusalem, Christians for centuries had been worshipping the empty tomb of Christ at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher.

James Cameron-background/biography

James Francis Cameron (born August 16, 1954) in Ontario Canada…is a successful three-time Academy Award winning director noted for his action/science fiction films, which are often successful financially. Thematically, James Cameron's films generally explore the relationship between man and technology. Cameron directed the film Titanic, which went on to become the top-grossing film of all time, with a worldwide gross of over US$1.8 billion; he also created The Terminator franchise.

James Cameron was born in Kapuskasing, Ontario, Canada, to Phillip, an electrical engineer, and Shirley Cameron, an artist. He grew up in Chippawa, Ontario, and in 1971 his family moved to Brea, California. There he studied physics at Cal State-Fullerton, but his passion for filmmaking would draw him to the film archive of UCLA at every opportunity.
[edit] Early career

He started in the film industry as a screenwriter, then moved into art direction and effects for films such as Battle Beyond the Stars and Escape from New York. Working with producer Roger Corman, Cameron landed his first directorial job in 1981 for the film Piranha II: The Spawning, shot at Grand Cayman Island for the underwater diving sequences, and in Rome, Italy for most of the interior scenes. He was originally hired as the special effects director (and his hand in story-writing can be suspected under the H. A. Milton pseudonym on the original script), and took over the direction when the original director left.

During his stay in Rome, he had a nightmare about a machine emerging from the fire, which had been sent from the future to kill him. While recovering, Cameron conceived the idea for The Terminator. He finally completed a screenplay, and decided to sell it so that he could direct the movie. However, the production companies he contacted, while expressing interest in the project, were unwilling to let a first-time director make the movie. Finally, Cameron found a company called Hemdale Pictures, which was willing to let him direct. His soon-to-be-then-wife, Gale Anne Hurd, who had started her own production company, Pacific Western Productions, had previously worked with Cameron in Roger Corman's company and agreed to buy Cameron's screenplay for one dollar, on the condition that Cameron direct the film. Hurd was signed on as producer, and Cameron finally got his first break as director. Orion Pictures would distribute the film.
Initially, for the role of the Terminator, Cameron wanted someone who wasn't exceptionally muscular, and who could fit into a normal crowd. Lance Henriksen, who had starred in Piranha II: The Spawning, was considered for the titular role, but when Arnold Schwarzenegger auditioned for the role, Cameron decided that he should play the cyborg villain; Henriksen got the smaller part of LAPD detective Hal Vukovich. In addition, Linda Hamilton first appeared in this film in her iconic role of Sarah Connor, and later married Cameron.

The Terminator was a box office hit, breaking expectations by Orion Pictures executives that the film would be regarded as no more than a sci-fi film, and only last a week in theaters. The film was low-budget ($6.5 million), but it earned over $38 million domestically.

During the early 1980s, Cameron wrote three screenplays simultaneously: The Terminator, Aliens, and the first draft of Rambo: First Blood Part II. While Cameron would continue with The Terminator and with Aliens, Sylvester Stallone eventually took over the script of Rambo: First Blood Part II, creating a final draft which differed radically from Cameron's initial version.[1]

Cameron next began the sequel to Alien, the 1979 film by Ridley Scott. Cameron would name the sequel, Aliens, and would again cast Sigourney Weaver, in the iconic role of Ellen Ripley (the sole survivor from the first film). Aliens became a box office success, and Sigourney Weaver received a nomination for Best Actress during the 1986 Academy Awards. Following the phenomenal hit of the film, Cameron now had more freedom to make whatever project he wanted.

Cameron's next project stemmed from an idea that had come up during a high school biology class. The story of oil-rig workers who discover otherworldly underwater creatures became the basis of Cameron's screenplay for The Abyss, which cast Ed Harris and Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio. Made on a budget of about $41 million U.S.[, it was considered to be one of the most expensive films of its time, and required cutting-edge effects technology. Because much of the film takes place underwater and the technology wasn't advanced enough to digitally create an underwater environment, Cameron chose to shoot much of the movie "reel-for-real," at depths of up to 40 feet.

For creation of the sets, an unfinished nuclear power plant was converted, and two huge tanks were utilized. The main tank was filled with 7.5 million gallons of water, and the second 2.5 million gallons. There, the cast and crew would reside for much of the shooting.
The Abyss opened on August 9, 1989 and held the number-one slot at the box office for two weeks[3]. It ultimately earned $85.2 million domestically, $46 million in foreign markets[4] and a mostly lukewarm response from critics. Cameron would later release a special edition version of the film in spring of 1993, restoring deleted scenes, including the film's climax as it had been originally conceived.

The film was nominated for four Academy Awards; Best Visual Effects, Best Art Direction, Best Cinematography, and Best Sound. It won for Best Visual Effects. After the release of The Abyss, Cameron founded his own production company called Lightstorm Entertainment, which produced all of his subsequent films.

After the success of The Terminator, there had always been talks about a sequel to continue the story of Sarah Connor and her struggle against machines from the future. Although Cameron had come up with a core idea for the sequel, and Schwarzenegger expressed interest in continuing the story, there were still problems regarding who had the rights to the story, as well as the logistics of the special effects needed to make the sequel.

Finally, in mid-1990, Mario Kassar of Carolco Pictures secured the rights to the sequel, allowing Cameron to greenlight production of the film, now called Terminator 2: Judgment Day.

For the film, Linda Hamilton reprised her iconic role of Sarah Connor. In addition, Arnold Schwarzenegger also returned in his role as The Terminator, called the Cyberdyne Systems Model 101, but this time as a protector. Unlike the Model 101, who is made of a metal endoskeleton, the new villain of the sequel, called the T-1000, was a more advanced Terminator made of liquid metal, and with polymorphic abilities. The T-1000 would also be much less bulky than the Model 101. For the role, Cameron cast Robert Patrick, who was a sharp contrast to Schwarzenegger. Cameron explained, "I wanted someone who was extremely fast and agile. If the T-800 is a human Panzer tank, then the T-1000 is a Porsche."

Cameron had originally wanted to incorporate this advanced-model Terminator into the first film, but unfortunately the special effects at the time were not advanced enough. The ground-breaking effects used in The Abyss to digitally realize the water tentacle convinced Cameron that his liquid metal villain was now possible.

TriStar Pictures would distribute the film under a locked release date that was only about half a year away from when shooting would begin. The movie, which was co-written by Cameron and his longtime friend, William Wisher, Jr., had to go from screenplay to finished film in just that amount of time. Like Cameron's previous film, it was one of the most expensive films of its era, with a budget of about $100 million. The biggest challenge of the movie was the special effects used in creating the T-1000. Nevertheless, the film was finished on time, and released to theaters on July 3, 1991.

Terminator 2, or T2, as it was abbreviated, broke box-office records (including the opening weekend record for an R-rated film), earning over $200 million domestically, and over $300 million overseas, and became the highest-grossing film of that year. It won four Academy Awards: Best Makeup, Best Sound, Best Sound Effects, and Best Visual Effects.

Before the release of T2, Schwarzenegger came to Cameron with the idea of making a remake of the French comedy titled La Totale. Titled True Lies, with filming begun after T2's release, the story revolves around a secret-agent spy who leads a double life as a married man, whose wife believes he is a computer salesman. Schwarzenegger would be cast as the secret spy, named Harry Tasker, whose mission in the movie is to investigate and stop a plan by Arab terrorists to use nuclear weapons against the United States. Jamie Lee Curtis would play Schwarzenegger's onscreen wife, with Tom Arnold cast as the secret agent's sidekick.

Cameron's Lightstorm Entertainment signed on with Twentieth Century Fox for production of True Lies. Made on a budget of $115 million and released in 1994, the film earned $146 million in North America, and $232 million abroad.

Cameron expressed interest in the famous sinking of the ship Titanic. He decided to script and film his next project based on this event. The picture revolved around a fictional romance story between two young lovers from different social classes who meet onboard the ship's maiden, and final, voyage. Before production began, he took dives to the bottom of the Atlantic and shot actual footage of the ship underwater, which he would insert into the final film.

For the film Titanic, Cameron cast Leonardo di Caprio, Kate Winslet, and Billy Zane. Cameron's budget for the film reached about $200 million, becoming the most expensive movie ever made. Before its release, the film was widely ridiculed for its expense and protracted production schedule.

Released to theaters on December 19, 1997, Titanic opened with $28 million on its first weekend. The film's grosses escalated in the next several weeks. Titanic was one of very few modern movies to gross more in their second weekend than their first. Its gross increased from $28.6 million to $35.4 million from week 1 to week 2, an increase of 23.8%, unheard of for a wide release, and a testament to the appeal of the movie. This was especially noteworthy, considering that the film's running time of more than three hours limited the number of showings each theater could schedule.

It held the #1 spot on the box-office charts for months, eventually grossing a total of over $600 million domestically and more than $1.2 billion outside North America. Titanic became the highest grossing film of all time. (Adjusting for inflation, the film brought in the fifth-highest domestic (U.S. only) gross of all time.) The CG visuals surrounding the sinking and destruction of the ship were considered spectacular. During the 1998 Academy Awards, the film won a record-tying 11 Oscars. Among them were Best Picture and Best Director.

Cameron received the Bradbury Award from the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America in 1991 — but, being primarily thought of as a genre filmmaker, he did not receive any major mainstream filmmaking awards prior to Titanic. With Titanic, Cameron received the Academy Awards for Best Editing (shared with Conrad Buff IV and Richard A. Harris), Best Picture (shared with John Landau), and Best Director.

In recognition of his contributions to underwater filming and remote vehicle technology, the University of Southampton awarded Cameron the honorary degree of Doctor of the University. Cameron received his degree in person at the graduation ceremony in July, 2004.

*OK guests/ members/tele addicts,
Tell me if I'm wrong or missed it. But, haven't heard tell of or any mention of this Highly well developed Documentary ever being shown/followed through with on Channel 4 or on SKY. Was pressure put on the Networks/suppression again...or has it been 'Aired'? Maybe some one knows. Is Europe still so 'chicken' & so under the 'Controlling tools' of Religions...that it is Network/political suicide to challenge this subject and finally give it some 'AIR' and contraversy? Too early, most people become selective about what they choose to believe.

They’ll get ‘locked’ into belief systems. This will allow them to buy and sell, become ‘normal ‘ citizens, and be ‘stamped’ out as proper working units. What we believe (through socialization), imprisons us.

*Would appreciate feedback on this folks. Really a vital consciousness understanding/issue. This topic is getting HIGH Hit...wonder why? Cheers/'Sweeps'

[Seth Haniel]

Was shown on SKY on Sunday 4th March
and according to all reports due on Channel 4 this Month

but when is a different matter - will keep my eyes open

[skylark]

Seth Haniel, on Apr 16 2007, 03:25 PM, said:

Was shown on SKY on Sunday 4th March
and according to all reports due on Channel 4 this Month

but when is a different matter - will keep my eyes open

Great Stuff Seth,
...Yep, have to look out for Channel 4. Thanks/'S'